Our perception of the world is the lens we look through due to our past experiences, both personally and evolutionarily. This is why we often find it difficult to have a positive outlook after we experience trauma, such as grief, unless we are intentional about lifting ourselves up.
Being a hopeful person doesn’t mean you never have moments where you feel hopeless or that you’ll never experience normal human emotions like anger, fear, or sadness. A perfect example of this is today’s guest, Shama Yunus-Joynt.
After the loss of her child, Shama experienced a transformation in herself that allowed her to move forward with strength towards the life she wanted to live. Her perspective on the future changed, as she had lived through her worst fear and survived it.
What could your life mean without fear? Listen in to find out.
About Shama Yunus-Joynt:
Shama Yunus-Joynt is an experienced human resource professional specializing in culture and engagement. She has a background in coaching and mental health, which she combines in a very unique way towards helping companies define and execute extraordinary people strategies.
Shama is writing a book, incorporating aspects of positive psychology into a unique and empowering performance management strategy for her clients that create positive work environments where people can thrive and do their best work.
Mentioned in This Episode:
Lindsay Recknell 0:03
Welcome to another episode of the Hope Motivates Action podcast. I’m your host, Lindsay Recknell. And it is my pleasure to introduce you to my friend Shama Yunus-Joynt. Hello Shama.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 0:15
Lindsay Recknell 0:16
it is awesome to have you here. I’ve been very much looking forward to this episode ever since we first connected, I don’t know, few months ago, six months ago, maybe?
Shama Yunus-Joynt 0:27
Yeah, it was about six months ago. And like you, I’ve been really looking forward to this as well, because we just hit it off right off the bat, didn’t we?
Lindsay Recknell 0:36
Yeah, we really did. I’m so aligned to how you think and your perspective on life. And I can’t wait for people to hear more about it. So let me introduce you to them in a professional way, and then I will pass it over to you to tell us your story.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 0:50
Lindsay Recknell 0:51
So Shama is an experienced human resource professionals specializing in culture and engagement. She has a background in coaching and mental health, which she combines in a very unique way towards helping companies define and execute on an extraordinary people strategy. Shama is writing a book incorporating aspects of positive psychology into a unique and empowering performance management strategy for her clients. That creates positive work environments where people can thrive and do their best work. I would like you to come work for me.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 1:23
Okay, cool. Where do I sign?
Lindsay Recknell 1:25
Yeah, right. And we will talk more on my other podcast, Mental Health in Minutes about your culture work and how you incorporate positive psychology because that is my thing. But for now, I would love for you to share with people your story about how you use and continue to use hope to motivate action in your life.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 1:47
Yeah, absolutely. At so I guess the biggest story in my life is the one about where I lost one of my children. So my daughter was 24 years old, at the time that she passed away, and she was killed in a car accident. So as you can well imagine, it was very sudden, and very stressful, shocking, painful. All of those things.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 2:21
You know, people say that the hardest thing that you go through is the loss of a child. And I think it is I don’t think there’s much else that really kind of comes close to that. It is an unfathomable thing, unfathomable thing, when we think about you know, somebody’s going through it. I remember having one of my my kids, friends passing away and you know, kind of thinking about their parents, and not even really being able to wrap my head around what that might feel like.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 2:51
So there I was in that situation. And yeah, as you could well imagine, it was a very difficult time. And it took a number of months to, to process what had happened and the grief. And, you know, I don’t need to tell you that, you know, grief is an ongoing phenomenon. It’s not something that we ever tried to get over.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 3:19
But it does have its stages, and it has its different qualities as you move through it. So I can what really stands out for me in this is that took about seven months where you know, there’s a really heavy feeling of of grief, and then sort of seven months into it, I woke up one day, and I thought I I’ve survived, I’ve I’ve survived this thing. You know, this thing that we are all afraid of as parents, it’s the one thing that you know, we are all terrified of. And here it happened in Well, I survived. And, okay, what do I do with that? I don’t want to meddle I’m not proud of this. I wish I hadn’t gone through this. But I have survived. I’m still here.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 4:12
And so so so what now was really kind of my next thought that. Okay, so what do I do with all of this? What do I do with this? What’s my life like now? Because I don’t even really even know that, right? I mean, what I tell people, one of the things that really stands out for me is when you see your child in the way that you do kind of at the funeral, everything that you have held to be true up until that point just ceases to be important. It even ceases to be true. There’s a life changing moment in that. You know, that’s contained in that.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 4:55
So seven months later, I asked myself this question. And that Okay, so I’m sort of I survived. I’m a survivor. And where do I go from here? And what do I do? And I thought on it for a while, because it, you know, your thinking is pretty muddled when you go through stuff like that. And I just patiently waited for an answer I had, okay, this is not some random thing that happened, it happened. And there’s something I’m supposed to take away from it. Because the other thing too was that I have another child who, the year before this one died, that one had gone through cancer, I only have two children.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 5:37
So I was like, Okay, this cannot be some terrible coincidence, there is something here that I’m supposed to understand or learn or whatever. And what I don’t know what that is. But I’m going to wait until you know, the answer comes. And so I kept searching for that. And I thought, Oh, well. So I’m a survivor, and I’m not scared anymore. That’s the thing that I really understood that, you know, what am I scared of now? Really nothing? Because I’ve seen and done the worst. So.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 6:14
Okay, so I’m living my life without fear. So what does that mean? And what I figured out was that what that meant was, there should be nothing holding me back from doing what I want to do, right? Because so many of us want to do certain things, but we don’t, because we’re scared of failing, or we’re scared, you know, that we’ll be broke or real scared that the you know, whatever. And we just don’t we don’t we don’t take that leap. And I thought, well, there’s no reason for me not to take that leap anymore. Because, well, what do I care?
Shama Yunus-Joynt 6:46
The worst has happened, I survived it. So maybe that means that I should be living exactly the life that I want to be living. And that’s when I started to make plans to change things. So I decided, you know, this Job’s got to go. I can’t stay here anymore. So okay, what am I gonna do to support myself? Okay, let’s figure that out. So I started to, you know, kind of put one foot in front of the other and try to move towards the life that I wanted to live.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 7:20
And I thought to myself, Isn’t that something? Here’s the worst possible thing that ever happened. And I’m finding the courage to do the things that I never thought I’d have the courage to do. So that showed me something about and I love how you call it hope, I never really thought about it as hope. I kind of thought about it more in terms of processing grief in a way that works. Because when you go through something like that, you lose hope you lose your ideas about the future, because everything seems so bleak. Everything that you had planned, all of a sudden is gone now.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 8:04
So without using the word hope for me, the word grief became what it means to process through grief is understanding who you are. Now, after this thing happened. I think people try to go back to the way things were before the awful thing happened. And they can’t, because fundamentally, they are changed. And I think that’s what really is what I learned from that. And if you can accept the fact that you have changed, but that you don’t know what that changes, then I think that in itself is very helpful.
Lindsay Recknell 8:50
There is so much I want to talk about after hearing that story. First off, and I know we’ve talked about this last before, but I am sorry that you lost your daughter. I mean, I can’t like you said I can’t imagine that. That is that is something you would want to wish on your worst enemy.
Lindsay Recknell 9:08
But I love your perspective on the whole thing on what you know, having had no control over going through that experience. What does it look like for you on the other side of that, and what can you learn? What can you take away? And how can you live your life in a better in a in a more fulfilling way? maybe different from where you were living it before? That perspective is amazing. I love that.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 9:33
Thank you. It took a while to come. But you know, it just made sense. It was like, Wait a second, you know what, how could I possibly be? How can I go back? I can’t, I can’t go back to a world because she’s not in it. So that’s not where I can go. And I know what I’ve been through and I know that there’s a bunch of things that are different from me now.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 9:57
And I think what’s hard about it is that we don’t Know how we’ve changed. We know we’ve changed, we know everything’s different. We know that we don’t see things the way that we did. And rather than try to understand what that is, I think people stay mired in grief, they stay mired with that incident and how that, you know, replaying things over and over again. And this is why my life sucks right now.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 10:26
Rather than I mean, yeah, I’m not saying, you know, these things are incredibly traumatic, and you can’t, you can’t just forget that they happen. That’s not what I’m saying at all. What I’m saying is understanding that I am changed now, because of this. And my job now is to understand how I’ve changed and who I am now. And, and there’s a lot of anxiety that goes with that, because I don’t know who I am all of a sudden, that’s okay. I need to take time to figure that part out. And I think that’s where, when you say hope, I think that’s the the piece that I was missing when I was thinking about this is that you know what being able to do that is very hopeful. Yeah, very, very helpful. I love that. So thank you. Yeah, you gave me a great piece for my story,
Lindsay Recknell 11:20
Well and it does. It feels very hopeful. And so my definition of Hope is going to be different than yours and other people’s but my definition of hope is that the future will be better than today, by taking action over some of the things we can control.
Lindsay Recknell 11:33
But the first part of that, I think, is what’s really fitting for you. And your scenario is because clearly you couldn’t control what happened to your daughter. But what you can control is your response to that, you know, how you move through it, how you learn and grow or figure it out, or how you honor your feelings and where you were at in that moment, you know, those are some of the things that you do have a bit more control over. And as you, you know, learn and grow and heal and move through those stages of grief to get you to that future better than today.
Lindsay Recknell 12:07
There’s also kind of an opportunity in that, you know, you talked about sort of thinking about what a transformation might be possible for you. Like, this Job’s got to go, you know, had this experience not happened with your daughter, who’s to know if you would have made that change anyway. But it was a good catalyst to say, you know, what I can, I can feel good, I can create a future better than today for myself. And, you know, and use this opportunity for transformation in a real hopeful way.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 12:45
Yeah, for sure. I think what you said was, use this as an opportunity for transformation. I think the part that was really important was acknowledging that everything’s changed. I think people when you say things happen, and he didn’t have control over that, I think that letting that piece go is I didn’t have control over that.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 13:17
So part of revisiting, and staying stuck is actually, it to my mind, it actually is about exercising control. We continue to look backwards, because we know how that story ends, right? So if I can look in the rearview mirror that I can see where I came from, and I know what that place was. And so it’s actually kind of save as awful as it feels right as, as painful as it all is, at least I know what that is.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 13:49
And I think when it comes to change of any kind, people would much rather stick with what they know rather than right. So it’s kind of like looking backwards rather than looking forwards and looking forwards means. Okay, so I’m going there. And I don’t know what it looks like. And so that scares me. And that gives me anxiety. So I’m not going to deal with that anxiety. I’m going to turn backwards, right.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 14:12
So that’s what this struggle really is about. And I think that hope is the belief that what is out there is not going to be that bad, it actually might be pretty good. Just because we don’t know what it is doesn’t mean that it’s going to be bad. And I think that that’s so maybe it’s about embracing uncertainty, embracing ambiguity, and really seeing the positive rather than the negative. Right. I’m not saying that I was in a very particularly positive frame of mind. Kind of wasn’t, but I didn’t know that looking backwards was not When I wanted to be like, I didn’t know that very, that, you know, there, that was a pretty bleak place. And there was nothing to be had from staying there. It was, like, yeah, I wanted to crawl under a rock and never come back out again.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 15:14
But then I thought to myself, okay, so I have x number of days left on this planet. And if I do that, well, then that’s it. I’m never coming back out again, I knew that I never would have had the strength to it once, if I withdrew, I never would have had the strength. And I had amazing people in my life, I had a wonderful girlfriends that just held me up, you know, they didn’t, as much as they had children of their own, and how difficult and painful it would have been for them to support me, they did, you know, they push past their own pain, and they helped me to stay above ground and you know, out from under that rock and just sort of stay up in the light and not not crawl back.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 15:59
So I think there is this, there’s something to be said, for looking forward, even when you don’t know what’s coming at you and being okay with it.
Lindsay Recknell 16:12
Which is clearly way easier said than done.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 16:15
Lindsay Recknell 16:17
However, I do think something that you said there about, you know, believing that it will be okay, that the ambiguity will be okay. But also trusting in yourself that you will find the strength, you will find the courage you will, you can do hard things, you know, like there’s a, there’s a bit of confidence there in yourself, you know, you had these wonderful people around you weighing you up. But there’s also that internal strength, that internal fortitude, that you felt like you would have had to draw on to know that you could take that next next step and go into the light instead of under the covers.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 17:03
Mm hmm. I have to tell you, Lindsay, I was really mad for a long time. I had, you know, I have two children. And I was really mad at, you know, God, or whoever I’m like, seriously, like, they both had to go through something catastrophic, like cancer by itself. My, you know, my, I was my oldest daughter, and she’s, you know, she’s with us, and she’s good. And you know, she’s 100% healed and in remission.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 17:33
But the point is that, you know, these things happened within a year of each other, and I was just really mad about it. And, you know, and I wasn’t, it wasn’t positive at all. It was actually it was I was angry, I was, I felt quite put upon, actually, and what have I done to deserve this, and poor me, and there was all of those things that that went through. And I think what was really the what made a difference at the end of the day was thinking about, I can’t live the rest of my life feeling like this. It’s easy to the easiest thing right now is to just withdraw. And perhaps, you know, take up an addiction of some kind.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 18:26
I mean, you know, I drank a bit of wine in those days, and I won’t lie about it, but that could easily have been a solution, you know, to numb out and people do, right? And why? Because it’s painful. And yeah, like, how do I cope with this?
Shama Yunus-Joynt 18:42
So certainly, that that would have been, you know, a response that I could have, I could have gone with, I could have gone with staying angry forever, because man, you know, I had all kinds of reasons to be angry. And people would reinforce that, oh, man, I can’t believe this happened. And wow, like, you know, you’re so strong by No, I’m so angry. And it could have been what I used to define myself.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 19:07
But at the end of the day, I kept searching for something I heard, okay, there has to be some meaning beyond the obvious. And I so I think that thing that you’re talking about is this is ultimately the search for meaning. And I think we all have it, I think we all search for, for meaning. I think maybe I did it a little bit more consciously. I insisted that there had to be something other than this random bad luck. That just had to be something for me in this. And I wasn’t sure what it was. I couldn’t see it. It took me months to get there. But I think that’s what it was. It’s just the belief that now there’s more here. So I don’t know if that’s spirituality or what
Lindsay Recknell 20:00
And I don’t know that it needs to be defined. But it is that consciousness that the word that was going through my mind, as you were speaking was intention. Something else we talk a lot about on this show. I feel like hopeful people are intentional people, it doesn’t mean that they don’t feel hopeless, that they don’t feel absolute depths of despair and anger and all of those normal range of human emotions, it just means that we move through them.
Lindsay Recknell 20:26
And we do something with it with conscious effort with intention, as opposed to staying in that, you know, why me? What is happening to me, kind of controlessness feeling, you know, it’s the hopeful people take action on the things they can control. And in this scenario, I feel like one of the things you can control is your response to it, and you are choosing to see it in a different perspective she did in a different way.
Lindsay Recknell 20:57
And that is one of the things I admired the most about you is your perspective, on scenarios on life, on life circumstances, at all stages of it, because, you know, like you say, of course, it wasn’t easy. I mean, you just lost a child. Of course, it wasn’t easy. And you honored that process, and are coming out the other side of it, sharing your perspective with us. And I just, yeah, I love that. I thank you for that.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 21:26
Well, and thank you, I mean, that, yeah, you’re right there is here, right, I have been able to honor the process you know, even though I was angry, and I was sad, and that was all of those things.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 21:43
But moving on from that. Obviously, I’m no longer the person that I used to be because of, you know, these things that I’ve gone through, and you bring up that point about, you know, the perspective for the rest of life, and what that’s done for me. And so the change that I made was, you know, it stopped working for other people and opened up my own business. And that was a whole other thing. Because, boy, I had never run a business like that before. You know, I had a bunch of expertise, and I had some passion, and they had some things I wanted to do. And I was all who I’m a survivor, as well, that was great. But then there was the reality of, you know, actually running a business in doing this.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 22:31
And so there was a whole lot of other challenges that came with that. And now that I’m thinking about it in terms of hope, four years later, and still at it, and it has not been an easy journey. And so, so I’m thinking now about, you know, what you just said about what have I taken from that, and, and been able to apply to this, this other journey. I think one of the things that happens when we try something new in particular, or when we don’t have a lot of control.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 23:07
So we I mean, you know, when you go when you quit your job, and you start a business, there’s a lot of things you can’t control. Because when you have a job, you know, where a paycheck, you know, you know that you’re you have a paycheck, you know, it’s coming, you know, the day is going to be deposited, you have control over you know how well you perform, you can you know, you can go do a reasonable job and get paid. And that’s all good. So I gave up that for a business in which there was no Bay jack, and no stability and none of those things.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 23:41
And so all of a sudden, there was a new bunch of things that I started to deal with. And one of them was this complete and utter uncertainty and ambiguity about the future. I have to say that the relative importance or the relative fear was less than it would have it were less than it would have been. So because I went through what I went through, then I had this ability to kind of be a little bit more scared and be okay with it. Because I now defined myself in a different way. I defined myself as somebody who’s willing to. I’ve always been a risk taker.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 24:32
But I’m even more I feel strengthened that I can do that now. Because what do I really have to lose? Right? So it’s like, Okay, well, let’s throw caution to the wind. And let’s just, I’m not saying I make the best decisions. But I think there’s a relative thing that happens as well. So once you’ve been through something, and you know, you survived it, then the next time, something everything sort of becomes relative to that, right. So there’s that change in perspective. as well. So I think for me, there was a definite shift in how I saw risk and how I saw the future and the uncertainty because I really gained some perspective on how I handle how I handle those things.
Lindsay Recknell 25:16
Yeah, your priorities changed and Heaven help us. We don’t have to go through as horrible experience as you had to get that perspective change, I think we can start changing our perspective, even by hearing conversations like yours, to give us that catalyst to change our perspective without having to go through the heartaches.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 25:40
100%. Like, I do not recommend this to anybody. But I do love the fact that there is a really awesome message here that really at the end of the day, our trepidation about the future is really about what’s in our head. It’s not about reality at all, is it?
Lindsay Recknell 26:00
No, no, it’s really not. Perception is the lens we are looking through. Right? It’s based on our past experience.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 26:08
And so why is it so I will ask you a question now. Because you are the expert in hope. Why is it that so many of us are compelled to see the negative side rather than the positive side?
Lindsay Recknell 26:25
Evolution, actually. Yeah, because our brains are, from the beginning of time are naturally wired to negativity, because back then we had to look for saber-toothed tigers. Everywhere we looked, there was danger. And so we were conditioned at that time, our brains are wired to look for danger to look for negativity, because our literal survival depended on it.
Lindsay Recknell 26:47
The beauty of evolution is it’s very slow. And so here we are in the Are we the 21st century, where we are looking for danger around every corner. And we could benefit from really thinking about things from a more positive perspective, from a more hopeful perspective. Yet, we have to fight our brains to do that, it takes a lot of practice, because it doesn’t come natural to us.
Lindsay Recknell 27:14
And so having, that’s why I believe that having conversations like this surrounding ourselves with people like you, who can help us to practice that perspective, is super, super powerful, because we are changing our brains to make it natural to make it the first way we think, fighting against our biology.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 27:38
Right. And so, okay, well, that answers a really great question as to why this is kind of our default position. So just thinking back to my process, yeah, there was a very conscious effort to lift myself out of that negative thinking, and it wasn’t about Oh, chin up, everything’s gonna be okay. It really wasn’t that at all. It was about going deeper into that feeling and that experience, and not trying to shut it off, going deeper into it and say, Okay, well, this is so different from anything I’ve ever felt before. This is so life changing. So what do I take from this? And I think, Why keep coming back to? Who am I today? As a result of all of these things, who am I today? After having run a business for four years? I mean, who am I now, right?
Shama Yunus-Joynt 28:42
Because when I first started this business, that’s what I thought I was going to do. And what I’m doing now are two very, very different things. When I first started, I thought I was gonna be really, really successful, you know, bringing HR processes to small business, and you know, all that stuff. And, Wow, that’s really not what happened at all. And now what, what I’m working on is something turns out, my passion is about culture and engagement. My passion wasn’t about writing policies, or it, you know, it, who knew. That’s not where my passion was, my passions about culture and engagement. And wow, that’s what I want to do. I don’t want to do that other stuff.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 29:21
So I think it’s that constant, asking yourself, who am I now? What do I really want? Who do I believe in? What do I believe in? What do I want? And I think that is where the energy needs to go and not Oh, what could happen? How could I possibly fail because I find this working with my clients when we talk about making change. And I actually have a precise certification.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 29:51
So I do understand, you know, the all of the ins and outs of change management. But it never ceases to amaze me that you bring up to A group of people something that you know, that’s new, that’s going to be a change. Most people will say, they will tell you in great detail about how they think it’s not going to work. Have you had that experience?
Lindsay Recknell 30:15
Oh my gosh, every time, right?
Shama Yunus-Joynt 30:18
Yes. Okay, so hey, what could go right here? Can we talk about that for like, five minutes? Yeah. And it’s it, you know it over and over and over again, in whether I’m volunteering for something or somebody is paying me, you know, to do their work. But I find that there, Is this real? Oh, no, that’s not gonna work. And it’s that same thing about, I refuse to look forward, because that is unknown. And it causes me anxiety. I’m going to continue to look back on this quagmire, that is my life. And I’m just going to stay there.
Lindsay Recknell 30:54
Because it’s easy. And it’s the devil. I know.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 30:56
It’s easy. And it is the devil. I know, even though it might be painful, but it’s better than the unknown. Yeah. Absolutely.
Lindsay Recknell 31:06
Amazing Shama this has been such an incredible conversation, I can’t even believe that we are reaching the end of our time. But I need to ask you one last question, the same question I asked all of my, all of my guests. And that is what gives you hope?
Shama Yunus-Joynt 31:21
I think, our infinite capacity to learn. We, if we decide to, and you and I could talk about mindset, but we don’t have time now. So if we can decide that we will open up our minds to another possibility. We can always learn, no matter how stubborn we are, no matter how old we are, no matter how set in our ways, and miserable we are, we can always decide to learn. And that gives me hope, the fact that sometimes a switch can flip, and people who are mired in unfortunate circumstances, their life can change, because they decided to take one decision, that would change everything. And to me, I love stories like that. And to me, that is hope, because anybody, no matter what the situation is, can do it. If they decide to, they can do it. And it’s essentially about learning new things. And so that, to me, is what hope is.
Lindsay Recknell 32:29
That’s amazing. I- learning. Continuous learning is one of my strongest values in my life, I can tell you, sometimes I joke that my biography should read, she was born, she learned to read, she did the stuff with things she learned someday she will die. It’s really that simple. continuous learning is how I roll. So I am totally aligned with you on that. Like I’m aligned with most things between you.
Lindsay Recknell 32:56
And I thank you so so much for sharing your brilliance and your insights, and the courage to share your story. I know that people listening would resonate with the experience that you have. And I hope that you’ve given them the courage to take whatever steps they feel like they might need to take next. You’re, you’re just a gem of a woman. And I really appreciate you spending your time with us. So thank you.
Shama Yunus-Joynt 33:18
Thank you so much for having me on the show. And I’ve really appreciated the opportunity to be able to share and of course, I love spending time with you. So thanks so much, Lindsay.
Lindsay Recknell 33:29
You bet we’ll take care. I’ll talk to you very soon.
Lindsay Recknell 33:34
I hope you enjoyed this latest episode of the Hope Motivates Action podcast. These episodes are a labor of love inspiring conversations with hopeful people make my heart happy. If you also love this episode, it would be amazing if you could go to Apple podcasts and leave a review. five stars if you’re into it. It’s these reviews that encourage Apple to promote this podcast to their network and the more people that listen, the more hope we can spread into the world.
Lindsay Recknell 33:57
Don’t forget to check out the show notes of this episode to find all the links to my guests’ books and other resources referenced in this episode. You’ll also find the link back to my website where you will find additional support and resources for you, your team and your community. I truly believe that the future will be better than today By taking action over the things we can control and hearing from these guests on these episodes. I know that an even more hopeful future is totally possible.
Lindsay Recknell 34:21
I’m always looking for inspirational guests so if you or anyone you know would like to be a guest on the show please reach out you can find me on the contact form of my website at expertinhope.com or by email at Lindsay@expertinhope.com.
Lindsay Recknell 34:37
When I was a teenager, my sisters were leaving the house to go out for the night. I always made it a point to remind them to call me if they need me. It was my way to tell them that I cared and would always be there for them. I’d love you to know the same so all of you listening out there. Call me if you need me. Again. Thank you for your love and support of this podcast. My work in hope and your intentional focus on making your future better than today. After all, hope without action is just a wish.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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