“Who would you be if you didn’t know who you were?”
Vince Fowler joins me on this episode of the podcast asking some real thought-provoking questions. He sheds some light on how our identities drive our behaviors, influences our decisions, and gives us forward momentum towards our goals. Knowing what we want our future identity to be gives us the opportunity to plan out our progress and prepare for obstacles we may face on the journey there.
Vince also emphasizes the importance of learning from our experiences, good and bad, and realigning how we identify ourselves along the way. By leaving room to learn and grow, we give ourselves the space to transition through different phases and roles throughout our lives without losing our sense of purpose and who we are.
So, how do you identify yourself? Tune in!
About Vince Fowler:
Vince Fowler is a Human Performance Coach to impact-driven CEOs and their leaders. His professional coaching journey began ten years ago at a Calgary-based business coaching firm serving Calgary’s small business community.
Feeling the need and desire to bring his own curiosity and science-based methodologies of coaching to current and future clients, Vince left the firm in Sep 2012 and has been in private practice ever since, serving clients locally, across Canada and the US.
Vince credits his success in coaching to constant mentioning and self-examination, a deep curiosity in the science of human behaviour, along with a unique life of lived experiences – many of which include significant moments of suck.
To learn more, you can visit Vince’s website and connect with him on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Mentioned In This Episode:
- WorkLife with Adam Grant: Glennon Doyle Wants You to Abandon Identity
- Think Again by Adam Grant
- The Gap and The Gain by Dan Sullivan
- The Gap and The Gain Framework
- Follow Lindsay on LinkedIn and Facebook
- Find more resources on my website
Transcription:
Lindsay Recknell 0:03
Hello, welcome to another episode of the Hope Motivates Action podcast. I’m your host, Lindsay Recknell. And it is my pleasure to have Vince Fowler here today with me. Hello, Vince.
Vince Fowler 0:14
Hello, Lindsay, thanks for having me.
Lindsay Recknell 0:16
I’m really excited to have this conversation with you. We’ve been kind of chatting OFF AIR a little bit. And you have, you have quite a story of sort of how you’ve got to this place that you are in today, having finished a ultramarathon a week ago, and I know that that wasn’t necessarily your destination. But it is where you’ve ended up along the cricket journey. And we’d love to hear more about how you got to that place and how you use hope to motivate action in your life.
Vince Fowler 0:50
So the funny thing is, I would never identify as a runner. And last Christmas, like leading up to you know, the winter last year, somewhere early December denita, my wife and I were watching the world’s toughest raced eco challenge in Fiji. It’s 650 kilometer trek through the island of Fiji and the islands around it. I think there was 67 teams Canada had a number of teams and all like this. I didn’t really know anything about ultra racers, adventure racers, but this was interesting.
Vince Fowler 1:28
So episode one we’re watching these guys take off and it’s just absolute mayhem from start throughout the entire episode. I’m like, these people are idiots. These guys are all crazy men, women like they’re just insane. And just in the very first few minutes of the episode, this one team out of the United States, they just come out in a bang and they they hit the first leg they they complete the first leg way ahead of everybody else.
Vince Fowler 1:55
They’re on there, they’re on this other island, they’re doing their little track. And the team captain starts to go down as a heat Casualty. He’s in heat, dehydration or heat exhaustion, heat stroke, whatever it is, but he’s becoming really, really seriously sick. So he ultimately recovers. But in the midst of all this, the lead that this US team had created was completely blown up. And everyone started passing it right. So no spoiler alert.
Vince Fowler 2:26
So I won’t tell you if they finish or not. But he did recover which is good news. So in that episode, like I said, I’m like these guys are insane. Who does this? Episode Five. I’m registering for an ultra
Lindsay Recknell 2:39
and I am one of these people
Vince Fowler 2:42
like I was watching this one, one team. And again, no spoilers but I’m watching this one team. And I’m thinking if they can do it, and they literally showed up like they just pay let’s do this weekend kind of thing, right? You want to go to West Edmonton Mall and go down a slide or you want to do an ultra. Go to Fiji and run an ultra. I mean, come on. So I’m thinking with my military background, my athletic background, I can do at least as good as them.
Vince Fowler 3:09
So I go online and like I started searching ultras, and I find this one. In Lethbridge. It’s called the lost soul ultra interesting historical event 150 some years ago, the Cree Nation, and the Blackfoot nation had a big fight in the Lethbridge schools. It’s one of the last major indigenous nation fights battles in history on Canadian soil. So there’s a lot of lost souls in this valley. And I thought how appropriate that my very first ultra is the lost soul. Because I had felt, you know, this idea of being a lost soul was really, really resonated with me.
Vince Fowler 3:50
So I was already booked, completely sold out. But if you can send an email to the race director and say, Hey, if there’s you know, maybe someone’s going to sell their bib. And by January 2 or third is when he emailed me and says we have a bib if you want it. So it was a 50k bib and I said Yes, right away and thought, okay, I’d already been kind of running only because the gyms had closed. So running was just the only alternative for me and running was a mental health reason had nothing to do with fitness. It was just to improve mental health.
Vince Fowler 4:26
So when he sent me that list, I was like, Yeah, I mean, I guess I better start taking this seriously. So we can there’s all sorts of crazy that happened after that, but that’s how I ended up signing up for an ultra as someone who does not identify as a runner who would not aspire to be a runner. best experience I’ve ever had in athletics in many, many years.
Lindsay Recknell 4:47
So do you. Do you identify as a runner now?
Vince Fowler 4:54
No.
Lindsay Recknell 4:55
Interesting. Tell me more about
Vince Fowler 4:58
Glennon Doyle. out there. Oh, I do. Okay, so she’s on it. She’s on a podcast with Adam Grant, Adam Grant, the organizational psychologist who wrote think again, and the originals and given to give and take. So I have a lot of respect for Adam grants work. And I’m really enjoy his podcast and she said the thing with identity if there needs if, as soon as we have an identity, there’s a list of rules, there’s a dogma, and there has to be an enemy.
Vince Fowler 5:30
According to Glennon, there has, you know, there’s rules, dogma, enemy. And when I first heard that, I thought, Holy smokes, I think you might be right. When I was in the military identified as a soldier, Canadian soldier, Canadian airborne soldier, there was definitely a list of rules, there was definitely a dogma and there was an absolute, clear, identifiable enemy.
Vince Fowler 5:53
So when I worked for Toshiba, and I’d worked for Canon, the enemy was Xerox. The dogma was all around the culture of the organization that there was a clear and identifiable enemy when I worked with canon, so. So I thought, I’m going to rethink every single identity I have.
Vince Fowler 6:16
And I have very few identities today, identify as a father, identify as a husband, identify as a man, identify as a curious person, as a compassionate person, assertive person. That’s pretty much it. I don’t even identify as a veteran as that would surprise many people either. So because what happens when I’m not?
Lindsay Recknell 6:48
Yes, fascinating. So you brought up Adam Grant, in his book, think again. And his book really resonated with me because of this. True rethinking, right? Not taking everything, you know, for granted like identity. I mean, we have grown up especially as business professionals, that’s part of our leadership trading. It’s part of our, you know, what do you want to be when you grow up? Right?
Lindsay Recknell 7:15
It’s, it’s a given that we identify as something or as some things. So I love the approach that you’re being really intentional about what it is you identify with. I definitely have to listen to the Glennon Doyle episode of his podcast because she’s fascinating to me also.
Vince Fowler 7:34
Very, like my because my wife denita. She said, so I guess you’re a runner now? or How did she say, You’re an ultra runner. Now she says to me, I know. I’m just a guy who runs. And she’s looked at me all confused. You know, I’ve met people who leave the military after 30 years. And their identity is completely fractured, because they’re what they were for such a long time.
Vince Fowler 8:02
I’ve seen the same thing in policing. I’ve seen the same thing in fire. I’ve seen the same thing with education, someone who is a teacher and worked their way up to principal and administrator. I’ve seen the same thing in professional sports guy I know, after 13, 14 years in the NHL, he struggled for about seven years, who you know, who am I? Now? I’m no longer that poster child. You know, that hometown hero athlete, who am I now and he really struggled.
Lindsay Recknell 8:33
Love it. So interesting. And so and so relevant? You know, I work and I know you do the same kind of work with. Yeah, people who have been in a role or played a part, so to speak for X amount of years, and then there’s a transition, right? Patrick lencioni will say that changes easy transition is hard.
Lindsay Recknell 9:35
So when you’ve made that transition, when you’re not doing that thing anymore, you’re not in that role. You’re not playing that, that part. making that transition to who you are now is very, very hard. What do you say to people to help them with that transition?
Vince Fowler 9:59
Who would you If you didn’t know who you were,
Lindsay Recknell 10:03
well, and then what do you say? Cuz that’s a lot?
Vince Fowler 10:09
Well, I mean, I was driving out to Stuart Creek Golf Course with a client. And yeah, just a fascinating guy. And I said, you know, who would you be if you didn’t know who you are. Because he’s been many things. He’s played rugby, he’s been an athlete, he’s, he started off flipping properties. He had a real eye for location. So he would buy the property, improve it, sell it. And today, he’s a custom home builder, and builds Beautiful, beautiful homes.
Vince Fowler 10:44
And so whatever mean, whatever I say next is actually I don’t know, because until they respond back to that question is my next question. So I would just caution, anyone who is going to double down on any specific label? What does it mean to be a blank? identity drives behavior, this is the work of Benjamin Hardy, he’s a psychologist out of the US. This is some of the work of Brene Brown talking about identity. So identity, desire, aspiration. You know, also the avoidance of pain will also motivate behavior. But if we talk about future behavior, identity, aspiration, desire, temperament, these all drive behavior.
Vince Fowler 11:36
So if we’re, if we’re looking at our life, and we’re reexamining where we are in life, where are we? How did we get here? And where do we want to go? I realized in this reexamination that where there was some there was some uncertainty about where I was going. And I really had no further wet place to look than what was my future identity. And so re-identifying with a future, all of a sudden, now there’s forward progress. When I was a kid, I identified as a future paratrooper, so all my energy and I was 11 years old, when I realized what paratroopers were, like, I’m going to be that guy.
Vince Fowler 12:14
And so I just explained all my behavior. And so there was a time when, like, forward progress, yes, I wake up every day, but you know, into what that was, in my own mind a bit of a mystery. Who am I waking up to today? Like, I don’t really feel super excited about getting up and going, you know, going to bed and getting up the next day. Now I have this curiosity about well, how far can I go? Whether it’s running, whether it’s in business, whether it’s in my mountain biking, which is a sport I enjoy as well.
Vince Fowler 12:49
So parenting, so have the courage to sit, still re-examine, what’s the level that we have? What does it mean? What’s the dogma that comes with it? And recognize that there’s probably an enemy out there of some sort, at least it may be not according to me, but according to society, right?
Vince Fowler 13:11
For example, today’s the federal election. If If I say I am a conservative, well, then by default, many people would say the enemy is the liberals, the NDP, the greens, and vice versa. If I’m a liberal, then the obvious enemy is the conservatives. We listen to the pollsters. Right now. It’s neck and neck. It’s a two party race between the conservatives and the liberals. The enemy of the conservatives is the enemy of the liberals are.
Vince Fowler 13:37
So that doesn’t sound like progress to me, we have this pandemic in Canada. And instead of saying, Who should be in charge, how about we both put our heads together and say, here’s the human problem we all want to solve. And while yours while your necktie is red, mine’s blue and or green or whatever, who cares? We have a very real human challenge here. And if we are identified as caring citizens, we want to provide opportunity for our nation, then, re examine that, re examine that identity and be careful who people tell you you’re enemies.
Lindsay Recknell 14:14
Because that’s a very productive very personal choice as well right? Or it shouldn’t be right because if you identify as a compassionate person as an example, then your enemy is probably not an actual enemies probably. What do you want to get to know better so you can understand where they’re coming from?
Vince Fowler 14:31
Right? If you’re watching f1 Racing and you cheer for Mercedes, then the enemy is clearly Red Bull. And if you’re McLaren, the enemy is his Ferrari. So like, it doesn’t matter if you’re the flames your enemy is Vancouver and Edmonton. So be very, very careful with identity.
Vince Fowler 14:53
It is to just let go I work in the coaching space, I work with impact driven CEOs who want to make an impact in the lives of others. That’s what I do if you need a title fine. I’m a human performance coach. Like logistic like legally on, on documentation I I will put down Yes, I’m a veteran because that’s I’m answering the question. But day to day life, I actually don’t identify as a veteran as much as I identify as someone who experienced the military.
Lindsay Recknell 15:27
Very cool. Love that perspective, I have already a lot of thinking about in the back of my mind here. Some pretty, pretty deep things that I want to think about after we get off the call here. And so I know so your journey to coaching, like let’s talk about your human performance coaching. I know that you didn’t, you’re the 11 year old self did not look into the future and say, Man, one day you’re gonna be human performance coach.
Vince Fowler 15:54
Yeah. I barely graduated high school. So I do a seven year career in the military. for all intensive purposes. I think it’s been a you know, pretty good career, one deployment to Somalia, I go into, I land on my feet in sales, professional sales. So I spend nine years there, I get recruited to work at a private school. So I worked at edge school for athletes. And I really, really, that’s where I ultimately fell in love with the role of coach helping student athletes move forward in whatever journey they’re on, whether it’s hockey, soccer, golf, dance, whatever it is. And I really thought I’d died and gone to heaven, I just absolutely loved my job.
Vince Fowler 16:38
2008 the economy goes all sideways. And so my job was lost and I ended up spending 16 months unemployed, no one, no one especially me would have ever predicted that. But I ended up in a pretty dark place. And probably about 14 months later, 15 months later, my wife , she puts a piece of paper on the kitchen table, I just put my daughter, our daughter to bed.
Vince Fowler 17:08
And she’s like, we got to talk. I’m thinking that that can’t be good. She you know, the paper is ultimately a bunch of numbers. And she says if we’re, if you don’t have a job in three months, we’re bankrupt before Christmas, and this is August.
Vince Fowler 17:27
So I found a job. I interviewed for a few different places I ultimately what I was looking for is not a job, but a life. And a job is a place that we go no slagged, anybody who lives in this space. But I think a job is something that we do in fair trade for compensation. Okay, we just I just need to pay the mortgage, will you pay me? What do you need me to do? It’s a fair trade. But I wanted to life like what was meaningful, impactful for me? What can I contribute to?
Vince Fowler 17:55
And so for me, I was looking for leadership roles. Again, high school background, no one’s jumping at that. The closest I got was Cal tire, they had a leadership journey from but everyone starts in the pit changing oil, and they work their way up the chain of command. But it was a local business coaching firm, that called me up and said, Hey, we see your resume, we think you’d make a great coach, for the low price of $75,000 that you pay us you can be one and like, that’s not happening.
Vince Fowler 18:30
So they offered me this business development role. I did that. I found new clients for the existing coaches. Rough, like a bit of a rocky start, finally found my groove, everything went great. Eight months in, they sent me down to the US for a certification through action coach, a globally global organization and coaching and pretty respected I would say. So that’s where I got my start. And a year and a few months, it was a year and two months after working as a coach within the action coach team, I resigned my position. The trade off was I had to pay back my tuition for coaching. But that was okay, I wanted to do my thing i wanted i didn’t think coaching was so figured out that it was specific to one doctrine. Like back to I am an action coaches and identity.
Vince Fowler 19:24
And so they certainly have their own rules and dogma. They also have an enemy. And I was just like, this doesn’t make sense to me. There’s more than one way to coach I’d say because I’ve coached a lot of rugby in my life, different ages, different genders. There’s always more than one way to coach a winning team. So I was that was a big part of why I wanted to go on my own. And just so I’ve been on my own ever since September 2012. And by own I mean as I’m a there’s three of us in our team, me, my wife and I have an assistant. It’s a call more of a third, you know, a second brain.
Vince Fowler 20:04
But the industry is very inviting the industry is very think we take care of each other, the ones that are really good at what they do and recognize we can’t do this alone, you know, we look out for each other, so. So you’re never alone, even if you’re an operating as an independent coach. And that’s ultimately how I ended up in coaching. And in the beginning, it was very much the mechanics of business. What I care, like I understand how a car works, the mechanics of it, or cycle engine, transfers energy into the tires, and away we go, we make progress, tune the engine, we have faster car versus commuter car, so on.
Vince Fowler 20:39
But I’m actually more curious about the driver. How does the driver think and behave during adversity during opportunity? competing priorities, that’s what I actually really care about, why? Why did the driver do this versus that? So that’s where my interest, and I would say, the gateway drug book to that was the brain that changes itself. It’s a case study after case study on neuroscience, and I just fell head over heels in love with positive psychology, organizational psychology, performance, psychology, things like that. You know, so that’s the short story on how I got to where I’m going. And, it’s been an incredible journey. It’s been 10 years as of June this year.
Lindsay Recknell 21:27
Amazing, I love I mean, I call it the crooked journey, because you never know what the left you know what left turns are going to lead to awesome things. And if if you were to kind of say, you know, where am I going to be in 10 years, maybe you ended up in a, in a place that looked and field kind of like where you want it to be, which is, you know, helping and supporting people to be their best or whatever.
Lindsay Recknell 21:54
But I imagine that you couldn’t have pictured what that cricket journey would have looked like to get you where you are.
Vince Fowler 21:59
At 11 years old, I knew I’d be a paratrooper and just knew this is exactly what I’m going to do. You can’t change my mind. But if you know, even in the summer of 2009, if you said, hey, you’re going to be a coach making a difference in the world of CEOs, right? My clients have degrees MBAs, I think I had, I don’t think I had a PhD client. But I’ve definitely had conversations with people yet. But I’ve definitely had conversations with people who have PhDs. And just through conversation, you know, ask a question there and watch their head, tilt and go. I never thought of that.
Vince Fowler 22:40
So like, but it’s a lot of my clients are highly highly educated. And there’s, there’s obviously formal education out there, which is very important. If you’re gonna be a doctor, please go to school. If you’re going to, you know, build houses, please get it legitimate trade.
Vince Fowler 22:57
But never underestimate the value of lived experience. And the lessons learned from lived experience, especially not repeated lived experience. Like, you know, we’ve all been on the race track a few times and gotten nowhere. But the hamster wheel more like, but there’s a lot of lived experience that we can’t buy in a formal education. So I’ve just doubled down if, if Vince Fowler is a spot on the roulette wheel, I’m going to Vegas and I put all my chips on Vince Fowler and, and, and just stay curious and ask 1000 questions.
Lindsay Recknell 23:38
Only one of those toddlers Why? But why? But why now? But what do you mean, why?
Vince Fowler 23:44
What happens if we do this? What happens if we do that? What happens if we don’t do this? Or don’t do that? Yeah, there’s no like, coaching is really about timely questions. That because, yeah, I don’t know what, you know, someone’s life is their life. Like, my job isn’t for them to justify everything they’ve said or done. It’s just tell me how that makes sense. Let’s talk about that. And that just leads to the next most relevant question.
Lindsay Recknell 24:15
So yeah, that curiosity is really so so powerful, and I think really highly underestimated, although, I do think that it’s becoming more mainstream. I have a lot of conversations about curiosity on this podcast, and maybe that’s slightly biased because I’d like to have those conversations, but it’s definitely my guests are bringing up that language a lot.
Lindsay Recknell 24:38
And that idea of rethinking and not just taking everything at face value or living a life according to somebody else’s expectations and you know, or making choices because it’s how we’ve always done things or because it’s how my parents raised me to do it.
Lindsay Recknell 24:54
You know, it’s it’s that thinking for ourselves and and figuring out you know, what is And also kind of giving ourselves permission to be okay with what if there’s, and I imagine you have an opinion on this, but often I feel like we get stuck in the ball, I can’t do something different because people are going to judge or, you know, what kind of risks can I take that may affect my family, my career, my legacy? But I think we’re being braver and asking more of those questions and giving yourself permission to have more of those conversations, even if we just start having them with ourselves.
Vince Fowler 25:37
A lot of the what if questions are geared to what if insert undesirable result? You know, what if I do this, no one buys it. What if I do this? No one likes me. What if I do this and, and and, you know, insert negative or insert desired undesirable outcome. But so many people forget to ask, Well, what if it does work? Dan Sullivan, who I think is the founder of Strategic Coach, he has this framework, this reframing called the gain in the gap.
Vince Fowler 26:14
So here we are. It’s mid September. And people are, you know, depending on people’s calendar year, if they’re on their calendar, you’re focused, then they’re going to get ready for the final quarter of the year. But they look at where they are right now. Geez, you know, we just are not where we said we’d be by the end of September. They’re looking at the gap.
Vince Fowler 26:35
What if we look at all the things we have accomplished since January, reminding ourselves that there was a pandemic, reminding ourselves that there was change in COVID restrictions, reminding ourselves that there was this change and that change, and there’s a disruption in supply chain, like none of those things are in our control. So while because at the beginning of the year, people made goals, and targets, which were all arbitrary, every single one of them was completely arbitrary, based on a future prediction, which the brain loves to do and is often wrong.
Vince Fowler 27:09
So here we are mid, you know, mid September looking at, you know, q3 and thinking now we’re not on track sometimes or behead, sometimes you’re behind. But what if insert idea like outcome, or most likely outcome versus undesirable outcome, and focus on the gain versus the gap.
Lindsay Recknell 27:30
I love that. All of these references that you’ve talked about all the books that you’ve talked about, and the frameworks and things like that will definitely link to in the show notes. Because, you know, this is the kind of stuff that I want to look back out and, and do a little more digging on for sure. especially some of those books that you talked about. I mean, I read a lot, but there’s a lot of those that you mentioned that I haven’t read before.
Lindsay Recknell 27:55
Well, I can’t even believe it. But we’re coming to the end of our time. And the last question that I asked all of my guess is Vince, what gives you hope?
Vince Fowler 28:07
As long as we can breathe, and take a step forward, then tomorrow can be different. And this comes from the context of a post traumatic stress diagnosis that happened in November 2019. That was in a you know, first I was in denial. How’s that even possible? I mean, I was in the military so long ago, how’s that even possible? And there wasn’t like, there was a I mean, there was a lot of dark conversations in the mind. There’s an expression the military, there’s a couple expressions in the military that have served me well.
Vince Fowler 28:41
One is pain is only a sign we’re still alive. And so to remember that, if we feel pain, this is good. Pain is just a sign that we’re still alive, physical or emotional pain. Second is the embrace the suck. It is not to say that someone is weak, come on, embrace the suck, jerk face. Don’t be, don’t be a wuss. It’s to acknowledge that, yeah, it’s to consciously accept and acknowledge that something hard, something painful is also necessary and unavoidable for forward progress. So there’s the lesson is in the suck, we don’t learn a tremendous amount through big wins, but we learn a lot in losses.
Vince Fowler 29:20
So back to that curiosity and that self examination and focusing on the gain, not the gap. If we just focus on the gap, I worry that society will give up a little bit be less hopeful. And if we look at the progress, whether it’s an inch or a mile, I just dated myself there and ensure a kilometer I’m 51. No worries.
Vince Fowler 29:47
But focus on the game.Before we respect the benefit of marginal gains, gold medals aren’t one like f1 championships, military operations or are they One by big giant leaps and bounds there one by the, you know, a degree here a degree there a point here a point there. And so that’s what gives me hope for tomorrow is that, hey, I can still breathe, I can still move. And the idea that I still have a certain amount of control,
Lindsay Recknell 30:22
what a way to end that conversation, because so my definition of hope is that the future will be better than today, by taking action over the things we can control. And so much of what you’ve talked about in the last half hour here is about finding those things that we can look forward to, can take action towards. And it doesn’t matter how big or small they are, that forward momentum, that progress is very, very hopeful and will get us to that place we don’t even know, we get the privilege of being at as long as we’re breathing as long as we’re, you know, continuing to live to live our best life with the values and characteristics that we’ve not identified with but have intentionally, you know, sort of wrapped our minds around.
Vince Fowler 31:07
I yeah, I completely agree. The piece that really, that I figured out for myself, was that success in anything and Bruce croxon with round 13 capital, he was on Dragon’s Den you saw on lavalife. He said, if you’re in business for yourself, you can pay the mortgage and put food on your table. you’re successful, you have no idea how successful you are.
Vince Fowler 31:33
And I think, you know, speaking of control, there’s a lot of things we’re not in control over. We are already putting ourselves in a position to win just by showing up is always 51% of the equation. So keeping that front of mind is incredibly important.
Lindsay Recknell 31:58
How amazing. Thank you so so much for joining us today. Really, really appreciate and look forward to continuing the conversation, Vince. Thanks.
Vince Fowler 32:04
Thank you. My pleasure. Take care.
Lindsay Recknell 32:10
I hope you enjoyed this latest episode of the Hope Motivates Action podcast. These episodes are a labor of love inspiring conversations with hopeful people make my heart happy. If you also love this episode, it would be amazing if you could go to Apple podcasts and leave a review five stars if you’re into it. It’s these reviews that encourage Apple to promote this podcast to their network and the more people that listen, the more hope we can spread into the world.
Lindsay Recknell 32:33
Don’t forget to check out the show notes of this episode to find all the links to my guests’ books and other resources referenced in this episode. You’ll also find the link back to my website where you will find additional support and resources for you, your team and your community.
Lindsay Recknell 32:47
I truly believe that the future will be better than today. By taking action over the things we can control and hearing from these guests on these episodes. I know that an even more hopeful future is totally possible. I’m always looking for inspirational guests so if you or anyone you know would like to be a guest on the show please reach out you can find me on the contact form of my website at expertinhope.com or by email at Lindsay@expertinhope.com.
Lindsay Recknell 33:13
When I was a teenager when my sisters were leaving the house to go out for the night, I always made it a point to remind them to call me if they need me. It was my way to tell them that I cared and would always be there for them. I’d love you to know the same so all of you listening out there Call me if you need me.
Lindsay Recknell 33:28
Again, thank you for your love and support of this podcast, my work in hope and your intentional focus on making your future better than today. After all, hope without action is just a wish.
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